Posts by morning glory

17

The Watchtower Way of Laundering Money

by Lady Lee in

.

i had not seen this before but it literally had my jaw drop open.

especially note the two letters at the bottom of the page.

morning glory

Balsam ,

Thanks for the reply! You said , "This is a brother and sister to so far as I know are active but they are no longer in bethel and are trying to support themselves by reprinting some of the old publications that do not have copyrights on them. I am not up on copyright law so I will offer no comment as to whether these publications that are being reprinted are still copyrighted.One of the publications offered by Watchtower Farms is "Faith on the March" As you will note,it was under copyright by Prentice-Hall in 1957.

http://reactor-core.org/faith-on-the-march.html

FAITH ON THE MARCH

by A.H. Macmillan

© Copyright 1957
Prentice-Hall, Inc.
Englewood Cliffs, N.J.

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 57-8528

First printing, May 1957
Second printing, July 1957

Rebel8,

You said that this man and his wife are still living/working at Patterson. If this is true,I wonder whose printing presses they are using to make these reprints? My point in all of this is,if the WTS's presses are being used to make these reprints at a profit and a pre-specified price for most of the items offered,how would this affect their claim for as a charitable organization? The WTS went on the "voluntary donation" program to avoid being taxed,if I understand things correctly.

Perhaps,the fact that these are older publications may have something to do with how the government looks at this. I don't know. Just wondering.

MORNING GLORY

34

What has been your response with telling "devout" JW's about the UN scandal

by booker-t in

i was talking to a elderly jw's lady at the donut shop the other day and i brought up the un and the wt scandal.

this woman told me that i was lying and that jw's leaders would never be apart of a "satanic" org as the un.

she said that "apostates" are spreading vivious lies about jw's and are only telling half truths.

morning glory

Hi Sunspot,

I agree with your observations regarding the NGO scandel and the "new voluntary donation" arrangement. It is all bull$hit and lies that generally achieve their purpose of deceiving the blind and unthinking followers. Because most JWs have become such brainless robots over the years by listening faithfully over and over to WT propaganda,they just can't see the forest for the trees. I noticed that with each individual that I discussed the NGO situation with(at least 12),that all initially felt that it was not the right thing for the WTS to have done. But,as they started to think about the implications of the situation,and reality set in,one by one,most started to make various excuses or justifications for this hypocritical action. Fear of man,fear of dying at Armageddon,fear of losing friends and family,fear of looking at "truth" straight in the eye,were all factors that resulted in a gradual acceptance of the WTS's explanation of the matter. Sadly,for those who claim to have the "truth",love of truth does not play an important part in their decision making processes.

I used to respect many JWs a lot,but since going through the experience of their reaction to the NGO scandel,I do not have much respect for their blindness and inability to reason on matters. They are more to be pitied,IMO.And the GB deserves whatever it gets down the road and more! They are the ones that prey on human's desperation and desire to have answers.Realizing that the WTS's actions are DELIBERATE and not as a result of religious fanaticism,was probably one of the most hurtful things I learned in life. To comprehend that fellow humans could be so treacherous and hypocritical under the guise of being our friend was a hard pill to swallow for my wife and myself.But,we are getting over it and,one thing we have learned is to NEVER accept anything again for as long as we live,that cannot be proven or substantiated.Our subsequent search for truth has taken us to areas that I would never have considered as a JW! Looking back,I would never have missed this for the world!

MORNING GLORY

34

What has been your response with telling "devout" JW's about the UN scandal

by booker-t in

i was talking to a elderly jw's lady at the donut shop the other day and i brought up the un and the wt scandal.

this woman told me that i was lying and that jw's leaders would never be apart of a "satanic" org as the un.

she said that "apostates" are spreading vivious lies about jw's and are only telling half truths.

morning glory

Initially,2 elders came to pay me a "shepherding" call since I had been missing a lot of meetings after I found out about the NGO scandel. When they kept prying for further reasons why I no longer came to the meetings,I finally disclosed my feelings about the WTS/NGO affiliation.The first elder's reaction was that "it was apostate lies". The second elder said that the FDS "would never do such a thing" that it was apostate lies also. When I showed them the letter from the branch indicating that indeed the WTS had been involved 10 years with the UN as an NGO,the reaction changed to,"See- now they have discontinued the relationship now that the criteria is no longer acceptable" Also,"Forgive them and get on with the truth" Also,"Wait on Jehovah to deal with it"

A few months down the road,2 other elders contacted me about the NGO scandel and were not willing to "leave it in Jehovah's hands" as they counselled me to do.It did not matter to them that the WTS went against everything it had previously published about the UN.Bottom line was that "it is Jehovah's organization" and that I should basically repent for having made an issue of the whole thing. One of their main concerns and also of the 2 original elders involved in this,was that NO ONE ELSE get wind of this piece of news.They were so afraid of me disclosing this information to other JWs! This reminded me of how they deal with pedophiles in the congregations. Same way,basically.They try to suppress the truth as much as they can for the sake of the organization's reputation.

I told my brother(an elder,in the organization as many years as me) about the NGO situation and he said that,"It was not a big deal to him" My sister said I should ask the circuit overseer about it when he comes on his next visit. Yeh right! Another sister said I was "close to being an apostate" for mentioning it to her! Another sister offered to the elders her testimony,which resulted in my wife getting disfellowshipped for apostasy and trying to create divisions.To sum it all up- most of the reaction from those who were told about this hypocritical relationship managed to find ways of getting around facing up to the real truth.One can only hope that later some of these individuals will begin to start thinking for themselves.

MORNING GLORY

17

The Watchtower Way of Laundering Money

by Lady Lee in

.

i had not seen this before but it literally had my jaw drop open.

especially note the two letters at the bottom of the page.

morning glory

Does anyone know if this following link is part of the WTS printing operation?

http://www.watchtowerfarm.org/servlet/StoreFront

Welcome to THE WATCHTOWER FARM REPRINTS

FREE WORLDWIDE SHIPPING
Watchtower May 15, 1957 pp.313-315 Appreciating Basic Christian Publications:

…Their zeal for knowledge may even prompt them to dig back into things that were published long before they came into the truth, expanding and deepening their understanding, and ever growing in Christian maturity. Do you dig into our older publications to expand and deepen your knowledge on subjects about which questions arise? Have you really studied these earlier publications? How is your background of knowledge? Never think: "Oh, I know most of that." For you will find, indeed, that you do not and that you will be strengthened by your additional study...once you have completed your study of them you can then look to even older publications. Only by studying earlier publications and digging back through previous issues of The Watchtower kept in the library at your local Kingdom Hall. There is much in the way of spiritual riches and aid toward mature knowledge in these earlier publications, and their study is most certainly worth your time.

The modern day history of Jehovah’s Witnesses is a rich and illustrious one. It is the history of men and women with faith, who truly believed that they had discovered the Truth concerning Jehovah’s plan for mankind and felt it was their responsibility to preach that plan to the world.

Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Franklin Rutherford, A.C. Frey, Maria Frances Russell and Gertrude W. Seibert are just a few of the many faithful brothers and sisters who did not just preach their faith, they lived their faith. In spite of their imperfections and flaws they demonstrated a deep belief in God and a willingness to sacrifice their time and money in order to accomplish the ministry that lay before them.

Since the publication of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES: PROCLAIMERS OF GOD'S KINGDOM, which introduced us to some of the early books written by Jehovah's Witnesses, many brothers have approached us regarding their desire to add the vintage and rare writings by the early Witnesses to their theocratic library, but were unable to do so because of the prohibitively high cost of these books.

THE WATCHTOWER FARM REPRINTS chooses rare and hard to find books from the shelves of the Bethel Library and reprints them for sale to the public. We do this because we believe that these old books should be available to all interested persons and that our brothers should not have to pay hundreds or even thousand of dollars for original copies of these books just because they are no longer being printed and are hard to find.

You can now purchase your own copy of these rare, vintage books for a fraction of the cost. Our reprints are a word for word duplicate of the original. We do not change the language or even correct misspellings. Our goal is always to protect the integrity of the original manuscripts.

Our books are professionally bound and we use the highest quality paper and covers for our books."

Nearly all of the publications that it offers are NOT on a contribution basis but rather these items are being sold for a specific price. If these publications are being printed on WTS presses,and not sold on a voluntary donation basis,I may see a contradiction here? Any thoughts

49

17 reasons why Christianity is a reasonable faith

by Shining One in

hi gang, .

here is part of an article i came across that defends the resurrection as historical.... .

from james patrick holding .

morning glory

Sorry that the information that I sent over did not follow the original format from which it was taken.A clearer summary of the similarities between Jesus Christ and the Egyptian god Horus will be noted by checking out the link that this information was taken from. Not only is JC drawn from Egyptian mythology but also are many of the stories in the OT. Noah's flood is just one example as the following information indicates. Bear in mind that the amentioned civilizations all existed before the OT was compiled!

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html#NearEast

Near East

Sumerian:

The gods had decided to destroy mankind. The god Enlil warned the priest-king Ziusudra ("Long of Life") of the coming flood by speaking to a wall while Ziusudra listened at the side. He was instructed to build a great ship and carry beasts and birds upon it. Violent winds came, and a flood of rain covered the earth for seven days and nights. Then Ziusudra opened a window in the large boat, allowing sunlight to enter, and he prostrated himself before the sun-god Utu. After landing, he sacrificed a sheep and an ox and bowed before Anu and Enlil. For protecting the animals and the seed of mankind, he was granted eternal life and taken to the country of Dilmun, where the sun rises. [

Hammerly-Dupuy , p. 56; Heidel , pp. 102-106]

Egypt:

People have become rebellious. Atum said he will destroy all he made and return the earth to the Primordial Water which was its original state. Atum will remain, in the form of a serpent, with Osiris. [

Faulkner , plate 30] (Unfortunately the version of the papyrus with the flood story is damaged and unclear. See also Budge , p. ccii.)

Babylonian:

Three times (every 1200 years), the gods were distressed by the disturbance from human overpopulation. The gods dealt with the problem first by plague, then by famine. Both times, the god Enki advised men to bribe the god causing the problem. The third time, Enlil advised the gods to destroy all humans with a flood, but Enki had Atrahasis build an ark and so escape. Also on the boat were cattle, wild animals and birds, and Atrahasis' family. When the storm came, Atrahasis sealed the door with bitumen and cut the boat's rope. The storm god Adad raged, turning the day black. After the seven-day flood, the gods regretted their action. Atrahasis made an offering to them, at which the gods gathered like flies, and Enki established barren women and stillbirth to avoid the problem in the future. [

Dalley , pp. 23-35]

Assyrian:

The gods, led by Enlil, agreed to cleanse the earth of an overpopulated humanity, but Utnapishtim was warned by the god Ea in a dream. He and some craftsmen built a large boat (one acre in area, seven decks) in a week. He then loaded it with his family, the craftsmen, and "the seed of all living creatures." The waters of the abyss rose up, and it stormed for six days. Even the gods were frightened by the flood's fury. Upon seeing all the people killed, the gods repented and wept. The waters covered everything but the top of the mountain Nisur, where the boat landed. Seven days later, Utnapishtim released a dove, but it returned finding nowhere else to land. He next returned a sparrow, which also returned, and then a raven, which did not return. Thus he knew the waters had receded enough for the people to emerge. Utnapishtim made a sacrifice to the gods. He and his wife were given immortality and lived at the end of the earth. [

Sandars , chpt. 5]

Sharur destroyed Asag, demon of sickness and disease, by flooding his abode. In the process, "The primeval waters of Kur rose to the surface, and as a result of their violence no fresh waters could reach the fields and gardens." [

Kramer , p. 105]

Chaldean:

The god Chronos in a vision warned Xisuthrus, the tenth king of Babylon, of a flood coming on the fifteenth day of the month of Daesius. The god ordered him to write a history and bury it in Sippara, and told him to build and provision a vessel (5 stadia by 2 stadia) for himself, his friends and relations, and all kinds of animals. Xisuthrus asked where he should sail, and Chronos answered, "to the gods, but first pray for all good things to men." Xisuthrus built a ship five furlongs by two furlongs and loaded it as ordered. After the flood had come and abated somewhat, he sent out some birds, which returned. Later, he tried again, and the birds returned with mud on their feet. On the third trial, the birds didn't return. He saw that land had appeared above the waters, so he parted some seams of his ship, saw the shore, and drove his ship aground in the Corcyraean mountains in Armenia. He disembarked with his wife, daughter, and pilot, and offered sacrifices to the gods. Those four were translated to live with the gods. The others at first were grieved when they could not find the four, but they heard Xisuthrus' voice in the air telling them to be pious and to seek his writings at Sippara. Part of the ship remains to this day, and some people make charms from its bitumen. [ Frazer , pp. 108-110; G. Smith , pp. 42-43]

According to accounts attributed to Berosus, the antediluvians were giants who became impious and depraved, except one among them that reverenced the gods and was wise and prudent. His name was Noa, and he dwelt in Syria with his three sons Sem, Japet, Chem, and their wives Tidea, Pandora, Noela, and Noegla. From the stars, he foresaw destruction, and he began building an ark. 78 years after he began building, the oceans, inland seas, and rivers burst forth from beneath, attended by many days of violent rain. The waters overflowed all the mountains, and the human race was drowned except Noa and his family who survived on his ship. The ship came to rest at last on the top of the Gendyae or Mountain. Parts of it still remain, which men take bitumen from to make charms against evil. [H. Miller , pp. 291-292]"

After starting to research the JW religion almost 2 years ago, I have gradually come to the realization that not only was the JW religion built on untruths and deception,but all world religions fit into the same catagory. Sad to say,the bible is just another piece of the mythological picture. Never thought that I would say something like this 2 years ago,but truth is truth.

49

17 reasons why Christianity is a reasonable faith

by Shining One in

hi gang, .

here is part of an article i came across that defends the resurrection as historical.... .

from james patrick holding .

morning glory

There are many common threads in all the world's religions,including Christianity,Buddhism,Muslim,etc. They seem to all derive from Egypt from what I have researched. Check this out on the Horus/Jesus Christ myth;

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

Comparison of some life events of Horus and Jesus:

Event

Horus

Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus

Conception:

By a virgin.

8

Father:

Only begotten son of the God Osiris.

Only begotten son of Yehovah (in the form of the Holy Spirit).

Mother:

Meri.

9

Miriam (a.k.a. Mary).

Foster father:

Seb, (Jo-Seph).

9

Joseph.

Foster father's ancestry:

Of royal descent.

Birth location:

In a cave.

In a cave or stable.

Annunciation:

By an angel to Isis, his mother.

By an angel to Miriam, his mother.

8

Birth heralded by:

The star Sirius, the morning star.

An unidentified "star in the East."

Birth date:

Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the

winter solstice <winter_solstice.htm> (typically DEC-21).

Celebrated on DEC-25. The date was chosen to occur on the same date as the birth of Mithra, Dionysus and the Sol Invictus (unconquerable Sun), etc.

Birth announcement:

By angels.

8

Birth witnesses:

Shepherds.

8

Later witnesses to birth:

Three solar deities.

Three wise men.

8

Death threat during infancy:

Herut tried to have Horus murdered.

Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.

Handling the threat:

The God That tells Horus' mother "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child."

An angel tells Jesus' father to: "Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."

Rite of passage ritual:

Horus came of age with a special ritual, when his eye was restored.

Taken by parents to the temple for what is today called a bar mitzvah ritual.

Age at the ritual:

12

Break in life history:

No data between ages of 12 & 30.

Baptism location:

In the river Eridanus.

In the river Jordan.

Age at baptism:

30.

Baptized by:

Anup the Baptiser.

John the Baptist.

Subsequent fate of the baptiser:

Beheaded.

Temptation:

Taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain by his arch-rival Sut. Sut (a.k.a. Set) was a precursor for the Hebrew Satan.

Taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain by his arch-rival Satan.

Result of temptation:

Horus resists temptation.

Jesus resists temptation.

Close followers:

Twelve disciples.

Activities:

Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He "stilled the sea by his power."

Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He ordered the sea with a "Peace, be still" command.

Raising of the dead:

Horus raised Osirus, his dead father, from the grave.

10

Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave.

Location where the resurrection miracle occurred:

Anu, an Egyptian city where the rites of the death, burial and resurrection of Horus were enacted annually.

10

Hebrews added their prefix for house ('beth") to "Anu" to produce "Beth-Anu" or the "House of Anu." Since "u" and "y" were interchangeable in antiquity, "Bethanu" became "Bethany," the location mentioned in John 11.

Origin of Lazarus' name in the Gospel of John:

Asar was an alternate name for Osirus, Horus' father, who Horus raised from the dead. He was referred to as "the Asar," as a sign of respect. Translated into Hebrew, this is "El-Asar." The Romans added the prefix "us" to indicate a male name, producing "Elasarus." Over time, the "E" was dropped and "s" became "z," producing "Lazarus."

10

Transfigured:

On a mountain.

On a high mountain.

Key address(es):

Sermon on the Mount.

Sermon on the Mount; Sermon on the Plain.

Method of death

By crucifixion.

Accompanied by:

Two thieves.

Burial

In a tomb.

Fate after death:

Descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.

Descended into Hell; resurrected after about 30 to 38 hours (Friday PM to presumably some time in Sunday AM) covering parts of three days.

Resurrection announced by:

Women.

Future:

Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.

Comparison of some characteristics of Horus and Jesus:

Characteristics

Horus

Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus

Nature"

Regarded as a mythical character.

Regarded as a 1st century

CE <ce.htm> human man-god.

Main role:

Savior of humanity.

Status:

God-man.

Common portrayal:

Virgin Isis holding the infant Horus.

Virgin Mary holding the infant Jesus.

Title:

KRST, the anointed one.

Christ, the anointed one.

Other names:

The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower.

Zodiac sign:

Associated with Pisces, the fish.

Main symbols:

Fish, beetle, the vine, shepherd's crook.

Fish, beetle, the vine, the shepherd's crook.

10

Will the Real "Great Crowd" Please Stand Up!!!

by rockhound in

in doing some research on the "great crowd" or "great multitude", i found some interesting watchtower articles that brought to the fore a very thought provoking question for all jehovahs witneses.

please follow the paper trail.. the watchtower of may 15,1995,p.20

18 in 1935 a bright flash of light revealed that the great crowd mentioned at revelation 7:9-17 was not a secondary heavenly class.

morning glory

A few months ago,I stumbled across a scripture in Isaiah that makes me think that the "great crowd" is a HEAVENLY class. Incidently,the original thought of the WTS was that it was a heavenly class! An examination of the following scriptures,leads me to believe that the G.C. is a heavenly class that existed in the first century,but NOT today! The following is an exerpt from a letter that Im had written to someone on the subject;

. The 1st scripture is from Isa.49:8-10 and it reads,as follows; 8" This is what Jehovah has said: "In a time of goodwill I have answered you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you; and I kept safeguarding you that I might give you as a covenant for the people, to rehabilitate the land, to bring about the repossessing of the desolated hereditary possessions, 9 to say to the prisoners, ‘Come out!’ to those who are in the darkness, ‘Reveal yourselves!’ By the ways they will pasture, and on all beaten paths their pasturing will be. 10 They will not go hungry, neither will they go thirsty, nor will parching heat or sun strike them. For the One who is having pity upon them will lead them, and by the springs of water he will conduct them."

You have probably have noticed that vs.10 is very similar to Rev.7:16,which reads,16 "They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down upon them nor any scorching heat, 17 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes." Not only are the expressions in both scriptures identical,but also the order in which they follow one another are the same. I can only conclude that Revelation is a quotation from Isaiah and is referring to the same group of people.

If we look again at Isa.49:8 and cross reference this scripture,we will note that Paul quoted this scripture in 2 Cor.6:2. Here is how it reads in the NWT;

2 "For he says: "In an acceptable time I heard you, and in a day of salvation I helped you." Look! Now is the especially acceptable time. Look! Now is the day of salvation." Paul applied this scripture to the anointed members of the 1st century Corinthian congregation,which was composed mainly,if not entirely, of Gentiles. He also pinpointed the time of application as being "now",ie during their days,which was in the 50's decade of the first century. When we look again at verses 8-10 in Isaiah,we will note that these verses seem to be speaking of the SAME group of people. Conclusion: If verse 8 had a fulfillment to Gentiles in the 1st century,so also does verse 10.

I am leaning to the thought that the great crowd in Revelation 7,must be a heavenly class,like we already discussed on the phone; but,also that it was a class in the 1st century only,and therefore is not a heavenly class today or even in the future.

Just some "food for thought" for those who like to analyse the scriptures.

45

Does anyone think the WTS is actually a 'front' organization?

by truth_about_the_truth in

i've been thinking about this for a little while and it appears that this is a possibility.

although i cant say that there is solid evidence, it looks as if the clues are there:.

- clandestine involvement with the un as an ngo.

morning glory

Watchtower

Golden Age

Millenniel "Dawn"

Knight's Templar on older Watchtowers

Picture of a "knight" in upper RH corner of older Watchtowers

The "Watchtower" symbol itself is out of Crusade era architecture

Pyramidology

Jehovah resides on the star Alcyione in the Pleiades constellation

Greber

Angel's and Women

"Grand Master","Grand Instructor" terms in NWT

"New World Order" terminology used in 70's

Westcott and Hort,"Ghostly Society"

much more....

TOO MUCH FOR COINCIDENCE,IMO!!

10

Dorothy and Gus just left

by gwyneth in

jw
friends

they caught me off guard...i didn't sleep well because i had to put my cat rocco to sleep yesterday, and for some reason awoke at 2 a.m. to cry another hour...my eyes are puffy with big bags under them.

so i went back to sleep.. since i decided to write this as a big run-on sentence, i have put what they say in red, and what i say in yellow.. dorothy was in her 70's, and she told me that in the new system, cats would still die but we wouldn't be so attached to them.

he asked what congregation.

morning glory

And I said, Their UN involvement, for one. They were members of the UN. He said, I lived in Brooklyn, NY, I know all the governing body, and that's a lie.

When I mentioned the NGO involvement last year to the two elders sitting at my table,the first reaction of one was,"Its an apostate LIE". The second elder backed him up and said,"They would not have done that. I goes againt everything the Society has taught us!" I agreed with his latter statement and then proceeded to show each of them the UN letter where it was stated that the WTS was an NGO for that 10 year period. The icing on the cake was the letter from the Branch office acknowledging it,too. As the conversation progressed,the original retorts of "lies" and "impossible" startedto change to,"Well,see they had their reasons)(library card) and "Thet are not doing it anymore,so FORGIVE them"

It is very difficult most in this religion to be able to admit to themselves the "truth" Admitting the truth shakes them right to the core as it affects everything they have lived for,and they quickly go into the denial mode. That is easier for them even if it is not the truth! However,the ostrich can keep his head buried in the sand when the hunter is approaching but it might find out that it is going to get it's ass shot off!

45

Does anyone think the WTS is actually a 'front' organization?

by truth_about_the_truth in

i've been thinking about this for a little while and it appears that this is a possibility.

although i cant say that there is solid evidence, it looks as if the clues are there:.

- clandestine involvement with the un as an ngo.

morning glory

Besides the commonly known connection with Masonry by Russell in his California speech,we have "exclusive" terminology in the NWT that no other Bible has,such as "Grand Master" and " Grand Maker"(in Malachi and Isaiah,I think). These also are Masonic expression! Masonry,NWO,Blavatsky - aren't they all inter connected? Did anyone know that the Greek manuscripts that the NWT is based on were put together by Westcott and Hort who were into the occult in their day,as well. Could the WTS be a front for other interests? I think that there is a good possibility of that!